. >> president obama met mandela in 2005 when he was a senator. when the president visited south africa earlier this year, president mandela was too ill to meet with him. >> james baker was the first american official to meet with nelson mandela after his release from prison. secretary baker's with us now from the baker institute at houston's rice university. good morning. >> good morning, charlie. >> mr. secretary, tell us what it was like when you met nelson mandela that first time? what were your impressions of him? how did he surprise you? >> well, my impressions of him were that he was a man of endearing and enduring dignity, very soft spoken, but very committed to the revolution that had been the focus of his adult life. i was also surprised, quite frankly, by the kind words he had for the last apartheid president of south africa, f.w. de klerk. in that meeting i had in march of 1990, it occurred, as a matter of fact, at the independence celebration of the independence of the state of the country of namibia. mandela said, i have read f.w. de